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COMMENTS POSTED AFTER OCTOBER 13TH
134 comments:
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the teachers are very WRONG!! with budgets cuts and layoffs and business closings I think that the teachers need to look around and see what is going on in small town america!!!! and its very wrong to wear black shirts or buttons to there place of employment in front of students!!!! I wish i could get a raise and work in a new building and not even live here or pay taxes in the town or county I live in ...I hope that the every day JOE..stands up for the board... maybe the board needs more money and they can wear red to every school board meeting...
Regarding the Knox teachers Black Fridays, I have to say that I do not agree with their complaint. Many people in Starke County are out of work, and the teachers should be happy that they have jobs! Mr. Wagner said that the community isn't dumb, and they will agree that if the money is there it should be paid to the teachers. Well, I'm not dumb, and just because you have money, doesn't mean you have to spend it! Perhaps it should be saved for a time when it is really needed.
with the current state the economy and budgets cuts layoffs and cut backs,, the knox teachers need to step back and be thankful they have a job,making the money they make for 185 days worked.. or look for a new job!!!good luck.
I believe that the teachers deserve to work under a current contract. They work hard to teach our youth and I find it disgraceful that they haven't been working under contract for 2 years. I also can't believe that some people don't agree that they deserve to work under contract. Teachers are often under-appreciated for the hard work that they put in to educate the children of America; and a slight increase in pay/benefits is the least that they deserve. I value education!
I have been both a teacher and a school administrator and I think it's disgusting the teachers are involving the students in their pay dispute! Wearing black to school! Come on! I highly doubt that will gain them any sympathy from the public. Actually quite the opposite. I do believe teachers should get paid more in order to attract the best and brightest, but it's a much larger issue than just the local budget. Also the idea that we should spend everything we have is how this national economy got in the current mess it's in. The comment made by the association president that the employer should share their profits with the employees sounds a bit like the "share the wealth" Obama socialism plan. The company takes all the risk, invests in all the capital resources, and keeps a good cash balance to stay strong, therefore if they are good managers they make more. Teachers do experiencel lack of power over their careers though. Once they gain experience they have no flexibility to job hunt for a higher paying company (school). Because of such tight budgets in most schools, they cannot to go to another system where they can earn more. They also cannot earn more because they do more or perform better than colleagues, so I do sympathize there and understand the frustration.
So, Mr. Wagner wants to be paid more for his "Rat Patrol" duties? (His term for his job, not mine. Ask him about that one.) This man teaches business, but he obviously has some fundamental misunderstandings of the most simple economic principles.
But then one only has to look at the average SAT score for an "A" student at Knox High School, to realize that the teachers there think it is okay to reward second rate work. Ever wonder why the best and the brightest in this community either attend private schools or are homeschooled?
Fire every teacher in the school.
Teachers should be among the better paid professionals in our community. They are entrusted with the education of our children, and it's abomindable that we fight over paying them a good wage for their time and expertise. Teachers spent a large amount of time and energy earning the requirements for this profession and should reap the rewards. In many schools, the superintendant is earns double what a teacher does, and nobody thinks anything of that.
The teachers want a raise, they want a contract, they want stability and some coin for their time and effort. Line forms to the left and goes around the block twice. What are you willing to give for these things? You'll have to take it upon yourself to improve your abilities and make better use of the tools you have available to you, as well as learn new ones. Teachers should be the *first* in line to learn something new and demonstrate a commitment to a life of learning and education, far too often they are the last to commit to learning anything new or different. The school has webpages for every teacher that they may post homework or notes so parents can stay abreast of what their children are doing. Instead they ignore it because "it's too much trouble". The school provides access to the grade book so that parents might stay informed of how well their children master each lesson, there are teachers that simply don't update it, circumventing the school's mechanism for progress reports and leaving parents to be surprised and wonder why Johnny got an 'F' when PowerSchool reported a 'B' the week earlier.
Yes, the teachers of Knox Community School Corporation should have a contract and should have a raise. I have no problems paying people well that do their jobs well. Historically, many teachers in that school do not do their jobs well. Instead, I propose a mass firing, Anybody that wants to work there next year can reapply for the position they want. Where a new, one year contract will be waiting. It's a hiring market, I'm fairly certain there are a number of teachers from other schools that would be interested to find better pay in Knox.
So everyone is disagreeing that it's wrong for teachers to stand united and together and face a school board who feels they lack backbone to stand up against them? The teachers aren't wearing the shirts to get a rise out of the students.. but to show the administration they are serious and want change. What's wrong with this? The school board is lucky that the teachers haven't had a strike there yet. Most schools wouldn't stand for the treatment this school administration is giving our teachers. Who by the way, don't judge them unless you've been in the position of being a school employee. You have no idea what teachers face daily and the amount of work they put into their schedule both on the clock and off at home. Also, the money is there for a much deserved raise. Why don't we ask the school board about the "rainy day" fund they have that's in the 100's of thousands AT LEAST that they are saving back to probably try and build a new superintendent's office. You tell me why this is more important than treating your workers with the respect they deserve. Not only that.. but what about the teacher aids that are now doing TEACHING jobs that don't even make $10/hr.. all because they don't want to hire in new teachers.
I don't think it's fair to say teachers don't deserve a raise, when the money is available, and blame it on the economy. In case you haven't been made aware, there are openings all over the area for positions both in Starke County and surrounding counties. If people want to work so badly, it's all about going out and finding yourself that job. Sometimes you don't get the privilege of working 2 mins from home and have to drive. But to use "the poor economy" is why I don't have a job is beyond bull. I work for a company where it's my job to get people jobs and let me tell you.. daily someone comes in that landed a job. So please don't use this sad excuse of "bad economy" and whatnot.. the underlying issue is that the funds are available, the administration just would rather save them for a wasted new superintendents office is probably next on the agenda.. you watch.
I feel like I can comment as an ex employee of the schools.
Let me tell you what it is like for a teacher[at least in the elementary.]
The bell rings, the kids come in,sometimes without coats or socks in the cold weather. They are freezing. The teacher tries to locate an extra coat or sock for this student. His nose is running and he is coughing. Mom said ' go to school anyway '
Next the teacher collects money for their lunches, but some don't have money and there is a balance due, so the teacher tries to work it out with the lunch people and then gives the student a note to take home to the parents.
Next she takes attendance 4 absent, but as soon as she is done with attendance 3 show up so this has to be remedied.
Next breakfast shows up in the classroom and everyone lines up for it [ if they have paid] but then some can't get it but they are hungry, so the teacher looks for what is left by other students so she can give to the ones who could not eat. Of course lots of time she will just pay it herself.
Now it is time to clean up the classroom from all the breakfast mess[ someone will for sure spill something]
Next she will take any notes that come in from parents but then some students don't have a note but say I have to go to my aunts house,but the teacher can not do this so she has to find out what is what and that usually involves a phone call[ thank goodness they have a phone in the room ]
Now off to the bathroom.
Next she deals with the ones who ' don't feel well ' and talks to the nurse about it.
Also there are all kinds of issues that kids bring to school that teachers have to deal with, parents divorcing, no jobs, relatives in jail. Believe me all this comes to school
After all this it is time to Teach!!
So tell me, you think the teachers do not deserve a raise?
I do belive the teachers need a current contract and do need a raise to keep up partially with the cost of living increases. BUT I do not think that wearing black to school on Friday's is at all appropriate. Friday's are meant to be Redskin Spirit days where the staff is allowed to wear jeans and red/white attire. Isn't wearing black instead, quite disrespectful to the athletes? If you're going to do it, at least pick a day other than Friday.
Why is it the teachers at the Knox schools are always in the news. You don't hear the OD, North Judson or Culver schools complaining on the news all the time. Rumor has it that they only got a 1% pay raise. When you speak of a rainy day fund, is that what a savings is. This should only be used for emergencies. If you spend your savings (rainy day fund) and don't have any other funds to put into it then you have to take out a loan (which if a loan is needed in the future) would cost tax payers more money. So why not keep a healthy savings. Have you teachers not listened to the radio lately, there will be nine Pulaski county office workers let go due to budgets. That should tell you that there is not a lot of cash flow and I'm sure there isn't more cash flow in Starke county. I think you should look around and open your eyes. When you become a teacher shouldn't your passion be teaching children, not demostrating how to protest (wearing black on Fridays). You should be proud of your school and that your a part of it by showing school spirit.
I think that the teachers may need a cost of living raise or contract .but the way they have went about it is very wrong.. If you worked for someone and went to there board meeting and stood up and said your name and that you are under paid !!!! well.. that to is wrong..thr doors to our school are open if you can find a better job then LEAVE!!!! sounds to me like the indians are running the reservation..chief wagner?
To annonymous who said "Fire Every Teacher:"
1. Not all of the teachers are in agreement with the Black Fridays, and not all are participating in this job action.
To annonymous who posted at 7:37 am:
1. You can't tell me that there are plenty of jobs to go around in Starke County and that people are unemployed because the don't want to look for work! I speak from personal experience and am insulted by a comment to that effect! 14% of the people in this county are unemployed and it's not because they aren't looking for work.
NO, you read that wrong. I stated that there are jobs in Starke County. Some people feel "above" some of the jobs, therefore if there is such a struggle, I think picking and choosing shouldn't be your priority, but taking maybe a less desired option and creating income until something better comes along is something more people should be considering. I stated there are jobs in Starke County and SURROUNDING counties that are very short drives away from home. I personally work in Porter County. Someone was saying that the teachers have no right to be asking for a deserved raised based on "economic status" and I said I think it's highly ridiculous to even use this as an excuse when jobs are posted everywhere. Like I said, maybe not your dream job, but a job that provides income and food for the table.
Also, you have teachers that show their support constantly for athletes. Not wearing Red on Fridays doesn't say.. "we don't like our teams" it simply is a statement to the administration. See how many teachers support local athletics by purchasing fundraising items, attending ball games, etc. However, they will continue to be stepped all over by the administration without making a statement. Like I said, I really don't think the schools would like to have a strike on hand and I sure as a world don't think parents would either.
Rainy day funds.. I understand needing a savings account and I in no way shape or form am implying that it needs to be emptied. However, when you have a fund in the 100's of thousands if not millions, that is collecting thousands in interest daily.. I think an increase in pay and a contract to work under isn't asking too much. I just can't wait to see the reactions on your face when you hear in the news next that the administration plans to add in a superintendents office.
the teachers and the way they have handled this is wrong! I agree that NOT all teachers are included in this? If the school has too much money in the rainy day fund ? then stop all student fund raising. and use it !teachers work hard and so do all employees at many different jobs and we all do things that we dont want .. NO RAISES!!!!!!!
First you should look at the fact that teachers pay does not come out of property tax, so no county money pays their salary.
One board member made the comment to a teacher about his kid and others and said I don't know how you do it.
This right here tells you that the board knows that teachers just don't work 7-3. How many of you take home work from your place to do at home for 2 to 3 hours each night?
Elementary teachers get 35 minutes a day to plan and grade papers. Do you they can do all that in 35 minutes? If so, then maybe you go in and volunteer to grade some those papers and see how long it takes you to do it.
How about high school teachers where the work load is heavier. Research papers take an hour or more to grade just one.
With over 2 million in the general fund, not counting what is in the rainy day fund, we are talking about a pay raise for close to 300 people that does not reach 150,000 dollars. probably not even 100,000.
If the city of Knox can give their employees a raise and they don't work half as hard as a teacher, then the teachers deserve a raise.
We don't need another new building for a superintendent to sit in with a staff of 8 people only to show off how nice is office.
Come off of some of that money school board and pay your teachers what they deserve.
Oh! For those of you that don't know, out teachers are in the lower 1/3 of all teacher in this state as far as pay. But, they are rank in the top 1/3 of all schools having the largest class sizes.
While some school have 15 students to a teacher ours have 30 or more to a teacher.
Give the raise!!
You know, I literally laughed out loud when I read the comment about how you never hear about the other schools in the news demanding raises. I was JUST talking about that, in fact, there was a story on the web about the OD teachers just signed their contract with no raise and what, a $2000 check at the end of the year. Bank.
You know, work is work, and home is home, and whomever said that this is a "hiring environment" is right on the money. It sure is. My home life has been beyond tight with money, but do you think I have gone to my bosses, who have cut our wages, by the way, and demanded a raise? No. I go do more work and learn all I can. In my opinion, sitting back and complaining is an easy way out. Find your ability and make it work for you.
The economy isn't always going to be this way, and one day, employees will have more ground to stand on and if you take advantage of the opportunities that are allotted to you in your current position, you can take yourself to a place where you feel more respected as an employee.
I'm glad WKVI did this because I have learned a few things here, like the person who ran through what a day is like for a teacher, was very interesting. And also, how this isn't ALL of the teachers doing this. When I heard the Federation of Teachers, I assumed it was everyone, but apparently not. Good to know.
There are slackers at every job. Look at the teacher who sits and gossips all day with other teachers while she's suppose to be teaching class *cough* home-economics (not naming a school), then there are teachers who show up at the school at 5am, practice with a team, teach all day, practice with a team, go to a meet or a game and then are home grading papers at 11pm, only to do it all over again the next day. The problem with what this "wearing black" thing is doing is it's not only a bad influence on the kids, but you're grouping yourself all together.
To the teachers I say...look at the teacher who is exercising this action who you wouldn't qualify as being a teacher because they love it, but because it's a paycheck...and realize...you're associating yourself with them. It's similar advice I gave to a young family member who kept getting into trouble with his friends...next time you're in a room with your friends, look around, find the stupidest one, and that's you. You are the company you keep.
To all the good teachers out there, you are underpaid, good or bad economy, I have always thought that, and I truly hope once this is settled or once the economy turns into an employees market, you find a school lucky enough to have your dedication. As for now, learn all you can, because unlike money, skills, they can't take away.
I was unhappy at my job a year ago, went looking for something else and couldn't find anything I was qualified for that wasn't over an hour drive away. Now...I have learned skills that I can easily leave this job and take another one...that was my goal. Learn learn learn, my friends. Fighting will get you no where other than frustrated at this point in time.
If the time comes that they decide to build a new superintendent building and the teachers are still without a contract....GO TO A MEETING. Voice your concern with who's running, and if I'm not mistaking, these are elected positions, right? Meaning the board.
Are people really that stupid? Do you really think that teachers get paid for the days that they DON'T work? I'll let you in on a little secret. They only get paid for the days that they DO work. The pay checks are smaller so that they can be spread throughout the summer. Essentially, they are laid off for two and a half months a year. It amazes me how little people know, yet they feel like they can comment.
Give them a raise!!!
They are just asking for what the state appointed factfinder ruled 2% in 2008 and 2% in 2009. It looks like the teachers had little choice, but to start doing things like black Friday since they are still working under a contract that soon will be two years old. Teacher salaries are funded through the state general fund based on the number of students in the school. Teacher salaries should be similar across the state. It's shameful that our teachers are paid in the bottom 1/3 of the state.
Lovely! Beggar thy neighbor? What a marvelous philosophy! Those objecting to teacher raises, I would imagine, would not turn down a raise on their own pay check. I would imagine they might even insist that they deserve it. Perhaps one whit of empathy would be appropriate when you think about this issue.
Let's examine the teacher's bosses, shall we? This is a labor dispute. The bosses are on one side and the laborers are on the other. It would seem only reasonable to look at both sides. My first observation is that nepotism is rampant in this administration. The School Board regards administrative positions as reserved for family and friends. As a result management competence, when it so rarely appears, is strictly accidental. The School Board regards teachers as their enemy and the well-trained administration heels.
When your boss considers you an enemy, you will have a miserable job. Quality teachers will leave when the opportunity presents itself. The writer that wanted the teachers to quit will get her wish, but only in part. Only the good teachers will leave. The poor teachers will stay for lack of better opportunity.
Should the teachers get a raise? I don't have a clue. Their pay is decided by collective bargaining under the laws of the State of Indiana. There simply isn't a right or wrong to it. I do know that the Knox School System is in for a rough go with the administrative team presently in place. They don't have any management skill. Their inept handling of their workers, especially the key employees, the teachers, will have an sad ending. The students are paying the price.
This coming from another perspective as a spouse of a teacher I can say first hand that I see what time goes into teaching our youth and providing for them beyond just education. Teachers' contracts go beyond the 183 days they are contracted for and the over time put in before and after school would cost the school a fortune to pay what is deserved. The teachers are paid for their 183 days; however it is dispersed over a year's time to ensure a steady income. They are not being paid for being off. (not that teachers are ever off of duty). Every summer, vacation, and after hours my wife is working on something at the school or for the school which our youth reaps the benefits. I can personally say that our own bank account is hit every year purchasing things for her classroom and her kids (yes kids because she thinks of them as her own as most teachers do). She provides not only school supplies for them so nobody goes without, but extras so the less fortunate kids can have experiences and feel part of something special. She also provides necessities for kids such as socks, gloves, coats, food, and etc because it makes her cry when she sees kids who do not have these items. Items that we all take for granted. She talks about her kids and shares their celebrations and trials as if they were her own. I personally have created, cut, purchased, and worked in the classroom to help her out on her “time off”. I do not see this kind of commitment from most employees at other jobs unless they are getting a huge chunk of overtime pay. She sees the benefits in the children’s eyes when they light up over something exciting or learning a new skill. She also hopes that when our daughter is ready for school that she has teachers that look out for her and take her under their wing.
Yes I am fortunate for my wife to have a job. She went to college and worked hard to earn a degree. We have personally paid out of our own money for professional development for her that the school would not, but she knew it would be beneficial for her kids and make her a better teacher (as I know many other teachers have done so). As to the black Fridays and not supporting the athletes, we frequently attend sporting events and show our support at the games and by purchasing items that benefit the local teams. Anybody can wear red and white it does not make you more of a supporter just because you bought and wore something red and white. Does this mean for me to support my local team I have to wear school colors to my job? It is not about having no school spirit or hurting the kids. The black Fridays is supporting a stand that the union feels strongly about wanting to attract quality teachers to our community and not be taken for granted. How many school board members do you see in regular attendance at sporting events? How often do they visit our schools during the school day to interact and be hands on when making decisions that affect our teachers and youth? Yes our teachers are paid in the 1/3 bottom of the state in salary, however the class sizes are in the top 1/3. How effective is that? Adding more teachers would cost more money. They are sacrificing our youth and their education to money (which they have).
Part Two from teacher's spouse
I am not claiming to know everything about this situation, however the way I understand it is the rainy day fund if for emergencies and is placed there when in need for money (staff salaries cannot be pulled from this fund). On top of that our school is sitting on over three million dollars, yes I said 3,000,000 dollars! For a school that is a huge lump sum, especially when our teachers and kids are in need of resources, supplies, room, and smaller class sizes. I am not in education, but a smart person would know a smaller class size equals more student attention, which in turn produces better results. The money would not cost our community anything. It is proven fact that the money is there and the salaries are generated from the sales tax in Indiana. Local taxes are not paying our teachers. It baffles me that some people do not see the investment of our children’s education and future! Doctors, lawyers, corporate presidents, etc are the ones who make the high dollar amounts. Think of it this way who made them what they are and provided a strong foundation to build their education to see their hard work, hopes, and dreams come true…teachers! I am so sick of hearing that we live in a poor community and we shouldn’t expect our teachers to have a contract or a raise (which is not even the cost of living increase), because those are the same type of excuses and mind sets that these teachers are trying to change in our children. To rise above the poverty level, give back to the community, and work your hardest to achieve. So are we as a community going to settle just because we come from a poor community that our teachers and kids are not worth it?
I would also like to say thank you for those who are not afraid to speak up and take a stand for what they believe in and fight for our kids and want the best for them, including the best teachers. Just because my wife chooses to believe in something and support it by wearing black does not interfere with her teaching or the time she puts in for her kids.
to the person that thinks teachers dont get paid for the the summer months , most teacher get paid for 7.50 hours per day and about 182 days per year and that that what the salary is based on ! and then divided over the year and piad in the summer? get it?
RE: The library dome. It is a vault, not a dome.
This is all very sad. When the teachers and adminstration are at odds, the climate in the buildings suffers. I, for one, hope that this comes to a conclusion soon, so the teachers can get back to what they do best---educating our kids, and put the fighting behind them.
Teachers are the guardians of the most precious resource of our community and our future.
Teaching is more than just a job, it is a profession. Just like doctors it requires a specialized education, as well as continuing education. Teachers not only have to do their jobs, they just like doctors, have to continue their own education. The classes that they must take cost them real money, out of their pockets.
Not only do they have to keep paying for graduate classes, (which are expensive), they also spend money on creating a pleasant atmosphere for our children to learn in. They spend money out of pocket on books, art supplies, pencils. paper, etc.
People talk about the economy being bad, and indeed it is. However, the money, is already there to give the teachers the raise they request. No additional money needs to be raised.
When the next recession hits in ten or twenty years, what better way to make sure that your children do not suffer, then to give them the building blocks today to make sure that they have an education that allows them to have a job that is recession proof!
Invest in teachers, they are the ones who are investing in your children!
Commenting on some other postings:
To the one claiming people are stupid for saying teachers get paid for the days they don't work. I read all the postings twice and saw none that made that claim. Also the "2 1/2 month lay off" is usually welcomed by teachers. It's actually looked at as a "perk" by college students preparing to be teachers or mothers who look forward to the summers off with their children. P.S. your grammar is poor with all those unnecessary "that's" in your comments.
To the ex-employee talking about a teacher's day. Throughout the ages teachers have had to deal with runny noses, lunch money, attendance, bathroom breaks and nurses visits. Try again. Whining won't gain much sympathy. Most professionals have hectic, full days with long hours. They don't sit back with their feet up on their desks smoking stogies. Granted there are many more social and psychological problems coming in the schools through dysfunctional families. But the best and most creative teachers will find many of these children enjoy their classes, are challenged there, and find a happy safe haven at school and will tend to behave.
I am so sick and tired of hearing people say, "Those teachers should be thankful they have a job. Blah, blah, blah. Don't they know that we live in Starke County and that people don't have jobs? Blah, blah, blah." That excuse is pathetic.
I don't look at your children and say, "You shouldn't strive to do well on your math exam or write an excellent essay because you're just a dumb hillbilly from Starke County." Instead, I look at them and tell them that is all the more reason to do well and make something out of themselves. Does Mike Yankauska (school board member) sell his hogs cheaper to the people who live in Starke County because of the unemployment rate?
The problem is that education is not valued by the majority of the people around here. That is the message being sent to students. "We don't value teachers, therefore, we don't value education."
Someone said that half of the teachers should be fired. Great. Lets do that. Who are you going to hire in their place? I'm going to bet that what you replaced them with wouldn't be any better. The person who would apply for a job at a school that hasn't had a contract for two years wouldn't be a person that I would want to teach my children. They must not be very bright, or they must be what the better paying jobs didn't want.
If you want your so called, "good teachers" then the board needs to make our school look a little more appealing.
I agree that not all the teachers in the corporation are the greatest. However, you have that at every place of business. Do you think that it is fair for people to judge you on the basis of what your co-workers are like? Can't you think of someone at your place of employment who could do a better job? Of course you can.
Do you have to further your education (at your own expense) to keep your job? Probably not. Teachers do. Do you have to take your work home with you? Probably not. Teachers do. Do you go home and worry about your job? Probably not. Teachers do. We worry about the little girl who keeps missing school for no reason and continues to get further behind. We worry about the boy who comes to school dirty everyday. In fact, when we go shopping for our own families, we purchase stuff for that boy to use to clean himself up with. We buy Puffs for your children's snotty noses. Oh, we also spend a little extra and get the kind with lotion so that their noses don't get sore. We purchase hand sanitizer with our own money to keep your children healthy because we love them and don't want them to get sick and miss class. Instead, we want them in class so that they can learn and do something great with their lives one day like perhaps becoming a teacher. At night when we lay our heads down we cry because we can't protect them once they leave our classrooms and go home to what is not always a great place to live. We pray for them when we pray for our own children. When it's cold outside we worry that they are warm enough in their homes. When we are having Christmas with our families, we worry and hope that our students are having a good Christmas as well. We are broken hearted when one of them drops out of school and feel as though we are the failures. We worry that your new boyfriend or girlfriend treats your child the way they should be treated. We see and talk to your children more than most of you. We do all of these things not because we are money hungry, but because we love what we do and who we do it for. When was the last time you heard someone say that they were going into education for the money? Seriously? I don't think that it is so bad for us to ask for a little something when the board has so much extra. Teachers make all other professions possible. You wouldn't be able to write your negative and belittling comments on here if it hadn't been for a teacher. Please keep that in mind.
No raise? Balony! Teachers get automatic raises every year just for teaching another year. Isn't that about 2% a year? They get this raise at the beginning of every school year. The teachers who have taught more than about 20 years no longer get the automatic raise for experience but they are paid about twice what a new teacher is paid.
Then teachers get another raise on top of that automatic raise. This is where they are asking for another 2% for last year and another 2% for this year. Didn't the school already give all the employees including teachers a 3% raise for last year?
The teachers make it sound like the school has not offered anything for raises for this year. I heard that they have offered another 3% for this year and something for next year too!
Have the teachers voted on whether or not to accept what has been offered? I heard teachers have not been allowed to vote because the union leaders still want more.
What? Are you kidding me? And then they have the nerve to wear black on school spririt days to show the students how unhappy they are. It just helps the students and parents see who the dedicated teachers really are. Those who wear black just give themselves a black eye and show themselves for what they are. I told my kids to thank the teachers who do NOT wear black because they understand that wearing black takes away from education and what is supposed to go on in the classrooms, which is education and not using the kids for this kind of protest.
Ms. Cross, with all due respect, I don't understand your comment. You first say that the positions that the teachers have are reserved for family members of the school board and administrators, but then go on to say that they are deliberately treating the teachers unfairly? Why would they hire family members to treat them unfair?
Never seen a school board member at a game? I don't think I've been to a game anywhere that I haven't seen Harold Welter at. Isn't he still on the board, I know he used to be.
If it's called a vault then why do the people who work at the library keep calling it a dome?
I'm the one that left the "fire them all" statement. To the person from 2:01PM. You missed the point. What the teachers want is reasonable, *IF THEY HAD BEEN DOING A GOOD JOB*. Below average results equals below average pay. Quite a few teachers I've associated with take a rather cavalier attitude towards students in general.
Teachers in general are the absolute *WORST* profession for refusing to learn anything new or try anything different. Change it, figure out how to get your students involved, and for heaven's sake, send progress reports via email or post to the parents, don't rely on students to do it.
Harold Welter is indeed on the school board. I believe his daughter is teaching at and her husband is principal of the elementary. I cannot comment on how well either of them do as I have had no direct contact with them. Though I would suspect it could put the school in a bad situation.
I originally thought this comment forum would be a good idea to find out the opinions of the community. Now, it's not about the contract, or the raise. It has become a war of words with community members criticizing teachers, spouses of teachers criticizing the community, and teachers criticizing the lack of support of education in Starke County. This isn't helping anyone, only causing more negativity. How about just the facts? Why have we only heard the "facts" from the teachers side? Is the board not allowed to discuss the "facts" as they see them? It would be interesting to hear their reasons for not meeting the teachers demands.
I do not believe that it was said that NO school board member attended games, but rather questioned how many school board members do you see at games. Not just football and basketball games either. Cross country, swimming, volleyball, softball, etc. Not to mention elementary sports. If teachers do not have school spirit why are so many of them coaches??
You think you know what a teacher does just because you have sat in a classroom as a child?
You do not.
Here-try this to get a taste of what a teacher does. This weekend when your kid has friends over try to teach them something, anything- Change oil, bake cookies, balance a checkbook. Now imagine teaching it to 30 kids at a time. Teach it to them well enough so they can pass a test...designed by someone else....in April....and by law they ALL must pass.
Go on-give it a shot. I dare you!
Give those teachers a raise for all the hard work they do every day!
The Knox Community School Board and Superintendent Augusta Gappa should hang their heads in shame regarding the teacher contract dispute.
While Mr. Gappa is quick to make a press release referring to Knox Schools as a "Gold Star" school, or how he expects the ISTEP scores to improve, he and the school board have turned their backs on the backbone of our educational system, the teacher. Mr. Gappa made a remark on a recent WKVI newscast that "he really didn't know what the problem was with the offer made by the board and administration.." Sounds like a school superintendent who is "out of touch" with his staff. Maybe the administrators and school board members should sit in a classroom for a week and hopefully get a reality check...
A 4% raise? Sounds like a small investment for today's youth. Let's support the men and women who care and try and make a difference with our children (the future of this county)
After 2 years of waiting for a contract, maybe the teachers should grab picket signs and walk out..
Maybe the question should be why there is no agreement between the school board and its teachers. What is the state of any negotiations? Perhaps the two sides need the assistance of a mediator. Two years without and working agreement is not the way it should be. Having said that, teachers shouldn't be dressing up to make a point. They should be attending school board meetings to ask the board why there is no agreement. Most of us owe the teachers in our lives a lot. They are not perfect, but they work hard to help us learn and grow and develop. Citizens should be attending school board meetings to ask why there is no agreement.
It seems to me that all the discussion about what teachers do and whether they should get 2% or 4% is not quite the point. The contract or agreement, whatever you want to call it, is about the terms of employment the teachers in Knox. That agreement is about far more than salaries. Any of us, should we go two years or more without clear understanding of the terms of our employment might get a little nervous. Most would probably just be happy to have a job. Nonetheless, to be working in a setting like our public schools for two years with no clarification of the terms of our employment is a bit of a stretch.
The teachers do attend the meetings. In fact, the last meeting they had, you should've seen the cars parked outside and the teachers that stayed around for the meeting.
There's state representatives that say this area is a laughing ground because there is money being sent to the school system for teacher pay increases that they AREN'T getting because this money is sitting in this fund that keeps growing and growing and isn't going back to the teachers like some of the money sitting in it is directly supposed to! What does that tell you about the reasoning for their backed union in this whole ordeal? They all know the money is there and why aren't the board and administration giving it to them like they are supposed to?
The school color thing isn't meant against the students whatsoever. In fact, if it's doing anything, it's teaching students to take a stand for things you believe in and support. There's nothing wrong with that. People act like these teachers are coming to school decked out in goth attire. There is a REDSKIN shirt that has black in it and some of the teachers are simply wearing a black long sleeved shirt underneath it. Just to simply show their union together.
The real problem here is that the teachers are very much aware that there is a pay increase they should be receiving from the state. When they aren't getting this and know that the fund is growing.. don't you think you'd get pretty ticked off too? If you knew your company is ALWAYS getting money to give you a yearly pay increase, yet you don't get this and you're expected to up your workload.. you wouldn't get ticked? I know I know, they should be happy they have a job. But do you know what a lot of these first year, 3rd year teachers are coming on the job with? DEBT.. they spent 5 yrs obtaining their degree and have about $60K or so in debt that they have to work to pay back. You have yearly cost of living increases.. if these teachers have money sitting there for their raise like every other teacher in the state.. don't you think it's not too much for them to wear a black turtleneck underneat their shirt? That's the least they COULD be doing.
If Harold Welter is a school board member and his daughter is a teacher at the elementary school and her husband is the principal of that school--that has conflict of interest written all over it. Must be some interesting discussions around the dinner table.
As a parent of a child in the Knox school system, there are teachers that make a strong impression and I do agree there should be a contract but why does it always have to do with money or raises. I have been at my job for several years and I do not get a raise every year. I do, however, sit on the edge of my seat hoping the insurance doesn't rise. You probably get your insurance paid as a perk. You also get (most schools per my friend) an increment or allotment every year, which means you already get extra money. I am not disbuting everyone would like a raise but now may not be the time. One of the headlines in todays paper is stating even the elderly are not getting a raise on their Social Security.
Boo Hoo to the teachers for acting like babies. Why don't they talk to some of the other staff such as secretaries and custodians who got their pay cut and see no raises in their future and were told they were going to do the same job they have always done but for less pay.
As for wearing black on Fridays I think it is disrespectful and sends the wrong message to us taxpayers. Be thankful you have a job in this economy and be like everyone else who is struggling and learn to live with it and cut corners. You could all have it a lot worse.
I can't believe that the teachers union can be so greedy to want more than the 5% raise they got for last year (the 2% automatic raise for teaching another year plus the 3%)and more than the 5% the school has offered for this year! Plus they have already been offered another raise for next year that will go on top of the automatic raise? Don't teachers also have a huge amount of their insurance paid for and a retirement account paid by the school?
Don't we all wish we had such a great deal?????
Ted:
You quoted me three times on both sides of the fence. Please allow me to clarify for you.
The teachers *should* have a contract, the teachers *should* get a raise. However, they *should* do their job if they want these things. Knox Community Elementary School is below average in school performance. I do not expect teachers to solve every kid's problems.
I do, however expect that they do their job in a timely fashion. Little things like, grade and record assignments so that powerschool is updated. Ensure communication with the parent *gets* to the parent rather than rely on the kid to carry notes back and forth. Use the post office, use email, use the phone. I expect the teachers to invest time into learning new things relevant to their field and improving their performance.
I do NOT think the school should give every dollar they have out in employee raises. Schools need to have savings set aside just like responsible citizens and businesses so they can survive the hard time. In case anyone hasn't noticed, the economy are in hard times right now. I see on the news that the Governor is talking about keeping schools at the same funding levels with no increases.
But if teachers get automatic 2% raises, the cost to the school will go up even if they don't get any increase in funding.
What does that mean? It means maybe Knox won't have to lay off teachers like the other schools who might not have savings to get through the next few years until the economy turns around.
So I don't agree with the person who tried to say our state representatives think our school should just give their savings out in raises. I think they know that this school board is taking good care of the school and our money, but most of all our kids!
I say thank you Knox school board members and administration for the great job you do even if the squeaky union wheel wants more and more grease!
that person, aka ME, didn't say that state representatives believe that the school should be emptying out their funds and just handing it all over in a pay increase. What I said is that, they are well aware that there is money given to the school to go towards the pay increases to teachers, that they are unfortunately not receiving and that the school is banking in this account that will eventually be used or practically emptied to build a "superintendent's office"
That's all this administration cares about.. building some extensive, fancy building for the superintendent instead of giving the teachers what they rightfully deserve. and you guys are saying the TEACHERS are being greedy...hmm
I just want to say that we have a great school board that cares for our students. They always have the kids in mind. I see Harold Welter at a lot of school functions that are not even sports related as well as some of the other members. I believe they are proud of our school and our teachers. They just can't give in to every whim or raise that may not be necessary. I as a parent, am very proud of our facilities and the teachers. I know it is hard work and you should be patted on the back. It just may not be timing for a raise especially if the schools may not get any funding in the next few years. You do have insurance paid or not, you get your summers off, you have no weekends or overtime (of course its what you make it) and you have a job that has rewards such as putting a smile on a childs face or knowing that you touched their lives. Thats not always easy.
OK, 12:17 p.m. person, how dumb do you think we are? Schools have more bills than just what they pay the employees. That money has to pay for everything else that it takes to run a school. How can anyone in their right mind complain that our school board is protecting the school's finances? Look around us, everyone is going broke and losing jobs as businesses go out of business or move out.
I don't believe for one minute that the school board is going to build a "fancy" superintendent office. Sounds like you are stretching the truth way more than even a little bit.
I thought there are other parts of the budget that pays for construction and equipment, etc. that can't be used for wages. So even if the school needed to build something or add on to an existing school, it would not be paid with money that could be used for wages. Maybe you are just confusing those rules about what the school can spend from what parts of the budget. Because I sure hope you wouldn't be trying to mislead anyone with wrong information! I know that sometimes when the facts and the truth don't help someone then they try to use scare tactics and half truths.
I agree that it is a disgrace that some teachers choose to wear black on school spirit days as a protest. This certainly does have a bad effect on teaching and learning in the classroom. It is a bad example for the students because it tells them not to respect authority and to put themselves above caring about the students.
It seems to me that a lot of people keep talking and don’t stop to listen and THINK. Misinformation runs rampant.
The fact is, our teachers are paid 1/3 less than the rest of the state. Now, ask yourself, “why?” Teacher pay comes from sales tax from the state and is divided up according to the number of students that are enrolled in the school. The proposed pay raise has NOTHING to do with the local community’s taxes. Thus, the community will not be adversely affected by the proposed pay increase. So, on these facts alone, why would anyone object to teachers getting a pay raise? Teachers deserve a raise just to meet the industry standard pay rate for the state and surrounding areas. It’s fair. It’s a no-brainer.
You can make all kinds of arguments for why teachers don’t deserve a raise, but they all fall short of logic. My favorite is, “You teachers should be glad you have jobs!” Well, that’s just outright nonsense. The truth is, teachers chose a responsible path of education and career and should be rewarded for their efforts according to conventional methods. By this I mean they DESERVE a contract and a 3% raise, as everyone knows, is a national average. For some reason, it seems a lot of you naysayers believe that teachers should suffer economically just because others are suffering. It sounds like nothing short of primal jealousy to me. Your employment status should have NO bearing on the teachers’ pay rates. Will we ever evolve?
I hear the school board thinks the teachers are overpaid already. Well, if this is true, they must not have done their research. Oh, wait… That’s right; they were given an UNBIASED, state appointed, Fact Finder. This Fact Finder got to look at ALL the facts and monies and determined that the school COULD afford compromising 2% raises. The school board STILL refused the raises. So, they have the money and the teachers deserve it. Yet, the board still refuses. Why? Do they really have a hidden agenda?
Also, I believe whoever came up with wearing black on Fridays should get a little high five from all the advocates of the raise. You may object, but you’re wrong if you do. This is a LEGAL form of free speech and an effective method of advocacy. It does not DISTRACT the students. It makes them AWARE of their surroundings! It also EDUCATES them on proper ways to stand up for what they believe in and how to show their support. Stop sheltering the children. Last I checked, I still live in America. Do you?
Lastly, I would like to make a comment on Black Friday interfering with athletic spirit. It brings joy to my heart. Anyone ever notice that the largest, most stately awards (AKA trophies) given out at the end of the year are for athletics? That’s interesting, considering school is an EDUCATIONAL endeavor. This is a problem on a national scale, though. It just never seems to be addressed. What a shame.
PS: Anyone else notice the bloggers supporting the raises tend to have better grammar and punctuation than those who do not? …Just food for thought.
I like all this talk about black being worn of Fridays. If I am not mistaken...it could be one of the school colors now. When I was there it was RED and WHITE...now it is Blue, Red, White, Black...and whatever other color some one feels like buying that year.....WHAT A JOKE
"If Harold Welter is a school board member and his daughter is a teacher at the elementary school and her husband is the principal of that school--that has conflict of interest written all over it. Must be some interesting discussions around the dinner table."
That is not half of it. Harold approaches teachers to buy his products.
But, according to him and the board that is not a conflict of interest.
How can it not be?
What really stinks is that the School Board is still paying a company to have that Doctor Berry do their talking in contracts negotiations with teacher's union.
Why are they paying an outside company BIG BUCKS to have her do their work for them?
You don't see the teachers hiring a "professional" person to talk for them.
You should be questioning that, because that money doesn't come in from the state to pay teachers salaries, that comes from your property tax money.
The way I understand it is that to give the raise the state said the corporation could afford to do is far less than that million dollar football field.
Oh! I forgot, sports is the number one priority, not education.
GIVE THEM the RAISE!
Vote out these school board members and put people in there that is for education not sports.
Put the money is improving the kids not the sports arena.
Teacher salary is not 1/3 the state average. please try again.
http://mustang.doe.state.in.us/TRENDS/corp.cfm?corp=7525&var=sal
below average is ok on the teachers salary....but not on the test scores...hmmm.
As a current elementary teacher it saddens me to be so underappreciated by some in our community. My job is difficult, but very rewarding. Whether you value me or not, I'll still go to work doing my job because when it comes down to it, the size of my paycheck doesn't dictate how hard I try to do my job. I do my best each and every day to make a meaningful impact on my students. I'm not perfect. All my students DO NOT pass ISTEP, but it's not because I'm not trying or not doing my job. I give up all of my free time at school to help my students learn. And no matter what, my students know I care about them, regardless of my shirt color. Thank you to those who support teachers!
I made no comment as to how appropriate it is or is not. Take a look around Mustang, The elementary and middle schools have improved in the past few years, the high school has stayed fairly constant. Can you tell me why this is?
http://mustang.doe.state.in.us/SEARCH/schlletter.cfm?letter=K
Testing out the teachers would ne the way to decide a raise
People are quick to point to teachers when their child fails, but just remember, when you're pointing at teachers, there's 3 fingers pointing right back at you. What should we do about the poor parenting? Parents need to take responsibilty, too. Afterall, you're your child's first teacher.
Many people on this blog have pointed out that Knox's test scores are in the lower half of the state. Others have pointed out that the teachers' salaries are as well. It just so happens that this same pattern exists throughout the state. Many of the poorest paying schools, like Knox (avg. teaching salary $46,700 with 69.9% ISTP passing rate), are also the poorest performing schools. Meanwhile, many of the highest paying school happen to be the best performing schools, like West Lafayette (avg. teaching salary ($57,400 with 91.5% ISTEP passing rate). Many on this board would have you believe that this should continue because the poorer performing schools' teachers are clearly not earning their pay.
However, there is another way to look at this. The top performing businesses offer superior incentives to prospective employees so that they can attract better talent than their competitors. The same is true of schools. If Knox and West Lafayette both have the same position open next year, you can guarantee that West Lafayette will get better applicants than Knox will. Likewise, schools like West Lafayette are more likely to retain the good teachers that they have while the good teachers at Knox are more likely to apply elsewhere.
It all comes down to whether the people of Knox value their childrens' educations enough to demand that their school seek out the best an brightest to teach them. Each school receives the same amount of money per student from the DOE, so there is really no excuse for Knox to be paying less than other schools. The Knox school board are the elected representatives of their community, and they have spoken, through their actions, about how much their community values education and the importance of seeking out the best talent to teach their kids.
As an "A" student, with a fairly high SAT score, who did not attend a private school or was home schooled, I am appalled at the way this community views the educators of their children. Perhaps it is inappropriate for the teachers to wear black to school on Fridays, but I hardly feel they are involving the students by such a simple display. They could be on strike, leaving you to have to figure out where you're going to send your younger children for day care while you are at work. They could all up and quit, leaving the school system out of luck and your children without an education. That would be selfish. Notedly, the KCSC receives some flack for having below standard teaching, but every single teacher I had throughout my educational career were amazing teachers. If teachers feel they are under appreciated, which they obviously are browsing through many of these comments, what level of caring do you think they will display when educating your children? I personally have been a student throughout many of teacher-contract negotiations and not once has a teacher from this community let that affect the quality of his/her teaching.
As this blog attracts more and more comments and visitors, I urge everyone to recognize that no decisions will be made from "Anonymous" posters. Elected officials will only treat those suggestions that are printed and signed by those they represent OR when an individual makes a personal appearance at a school board meeting. Since I am posting anonymously, these are only thoughts.
1. When posting I read the disclaimer "...All comments must be approved by the blog author...". Do you expect anyone to take this seriously? I wonder how many have been rejected?
2. To the Administration, what was the recommendation of the third party fact finder? How many times has the Administration acted against the fact finder in the past? What would be the position of the Administration if the KFT did not accept that recommendation?
3. To the public making comments about "bad teachers" in the system, is this really a knock against the teachers or the Administration? Teachers can be removed if they are deemed unacceptable. Yes there is a process, but isn't there a process in every workplace? And, do we really think anyone would go to work thinking "I am going to do a terrible job today"? So, whose fault is it if there are bad teachers?
4. Black Friday...are the teachers dressing professionally? If the dress code says that they were red on Fridays that is a matter that must be worked out between worker and supervisor. If the teachers wore the same outfit on any other day would they be disciplined? I wonder if it would be more of a distraction to the educational environment if a teacher wore black on a Friday or jeans and red shirt? School spirit days are days when the staff may "choose" to wear red. I bet, if you really examine the situation closely, as long as they are dressed as the professionals that they are, there will be no impact to the educational environment. Real school spirit is supporting the school with every action in the classrooms, the athletic fields, the testing rooms, the school buses and how we send our students to school.
5. To the KFT, if your people have not voted on the current proposal, are you truly representing the membership?
Again these are just thoughts.
" When I was there it was RED and WHITE...now it is Blue, Red, White, Black...and whatever other color some one feels like buying that year.....WHAT A JOKE
October 16, 2009 2:02 PM"
Well, you can thank Harold Welter for all the colors being added. Taht way his idea.
October 16, 2009 3:23 PM
Blogger Richard June said...
Teacher salary is not 1/3 the state average. please try again.
http://mustang.doe.state.in.us/TRENDS/corp.cfm?corp=7525&var=sal
Richard June, did you ever stop to think where that website gets its information?
From the administration that is where.
Also that is a trend graph. That means the state is projecting that that is what the salary average will be.
OF course it won't be that because the salaries are not going up according to the administration, but the number of work days and hours worked are.
You expect students to get a quality education and have the best teachers available. Just like a good employer should take care their workers, the teachers are no different--it's not like the school is broke, and the state alots monies to go toward the teachers for this very reason! Go teaches, wear black on Fridays--in my day, the teachers walked out! You have no idea what teachers endure during school hours..kids out of contol with home issues..if there is bad parenting, the suitation goes from home to school! YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE.THE TEACHERS DESERVE THE BEST!
After having read the previous blogs and given some time to reflect, I decided to write in myself.
I am a teacher. I’m very proud of my title. I am extremely happy and thankful I have a job today.
But it took a lot of hard work and dedication to get it. Not just anyone can walk into a teaching position. For those of you out of work, the school is always looking for qualified substitutes. If you meet the educational requirements and pass the background check you will soon find out that teaching is not as easy as it looks.
I’m always at school much earlier than my contract states and rarely go home before 5:00. I spend holidays, weekends, and summers looking for new ideas to use in the classroom. I have spent thousands of dollars over the years of my own money on my students, and I feel I have always conducted myself in a professional manner.
I am one of those teachers with over 20 years service, therefore I no longer get a cost of living raise. I start each school year making the same money I did the year before. Unless there is an increase in taxes or insurance costs, in which case my paycheck is less. I don’t know of any other profession that requires the amount of continuous education and professional training as is required of teachers, and then rewards 20+ years of service with a shrinking paycheck. The last time I checked my NIPSCO, cable, and phone bills, they hadn’t capped off my bills after 20 years of service.
I can understand some of you not agreeing with the teachers about the raise, but the issue of “Black Fridays” in your arguments is ridiculous. The color choice of clothing we make, or the day we choose to wear it, has no bearing on sports or our abilities to teach our classes. It is purely an expression of our unity and support of one another. I think you will find that even some of the coaches are wearing black. Does that mean that they are not coaching as effectively or supporting their teams? I don’t know of one teacher that has drawn any students into taking sides or even told their classes why they are wearing black. If anything it is more of an inconvenience to the teachers than to anyone else.
“Red and White” days or “Spirit” days were actually created as a way to have casual Fridays as many businesses do. The requirement for teachers was not to wear red and white, but rather it was necessary to wear Redskin or red and white to be able to wear jeans on Friday. By us choosing to wear black instead of red, we are giving up our opportunity to wear jeans. We are not being disrespectful to the school, community, teams, ourselves, and least of all, the students.
The DOE does not give every school the exact same amount of money per student.
Middlebury schools are sueing the state for that very reason.
It appears misery loves company. That isn't a good reason not to give teachers a raise. Look at it from this perspective, the Knox Community School Corporation is one of the larger employers in Starke County. By hoarding money they are hurting the economy, not helping. If they build their new administration office, no doubt that money will go to contractors outside the community. If they give raises to the teachers, they will also end up giving the support staff raises as well. These people are the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, custodians, grounds people, maintenance, teacher's aides, secretaries, and technology specialists. Most of these people live in Knox. They buy goods and services here. Even those who don't live here buy things here simply because they spend 5 days a week and at least 8 hours a day at their jobs. So what would be the better investment?
It's interesting that with the fervor over the teacher's desire for a raise, the school board has failed to come forward with the raise for the new superintendent. He makes more as a first time superintendent than the previous one did who had experience. He also gets free insurance, unlike the teachers who PAY for insurance. Apparently he did not feel a pay increase for himself was a burden to the community.
What percent of teachers do not live in Starke County?
I hope everyone on either side of this issue got to hear Mr. Gappa this morning. Its sounds to me if I understand the facts correctly that the teachers already received compensation for the 2008 school year in the form of a lump some payment in Dec. of 2007, I understand that this didn't go on the pay schedule, but it was still for 2008 and the teachers did receive it,also that they have had a language contract and have only been without a benifits contract which is what is being worked on now, that the board is offering them more then what they asked for 2009, a 3% raise instead of 2% and are offering them a 1.5 % raise for 2010, which is pretty risky for them since the projection from the Govenors office is that there will be not increases in revenue for next year, meaning the raises offered would come out of the cash balance. So with all this on the table, I, as a tax payer and parent of a student in the corp am not quite sure why the union is saying that the board doesn't appreciate them or want to give them anything. I think until this information came out this morning , we were being mislead?
What most of you people do not realize is that the Fact Finder was given all of the information that has been discussed on this blog and more. His findings were that the teachers should be given a 2% raise for both 2008 and 2009. This individual was approved by both the Board and the Union. Why did the board waste everyone’s time if they weren’t even going to factor in what the Fact Finder had to say? That is the question that we should be blogging about not if the teachers deserve a raise. Everyone who voices an opinion on this issue without hearing both sides of the issue are total idiots. Become more informed, go to a school board meeting, and then make a valid point that is worth my time to read.
I THINK THE CUSTODIANS AND BUS DRIVERS NEED A RAISE BEFORE THE TEACHERS DO THEY ARE PAID THE LESS AND HAVE TO PUT UP WITH MORE CRAP THAN ANY ONE.
Anonymous discussion boards such as this one can take an already
volatile issue and multiply the hard feelings times ten in a community. It creates division and negativity in a community. Like throwing gas on a smoldering fire. These discussion boards should require you to sign your name or do not have it. The teachers and administration should not air their contract disagreements in the media. That is rule number 1 in contract negotiations 101. I do not live in Knox so this is just an outside obervation. Good luck
I'd vote to give the teachers a raise if we clean house of all the slackers.Why are there so many personal refridgerators and microwaves in classrooms that the tax payers pay to operate Why don't some teachers have a computer for students to take AR tests while others have more than one? How come some teachers can keep their websites and grades updated while others don't? SLACKERS!!! To the dedicated teachers yes you deserve a raise. The principals know the slackers names because we report them. Maybe it's time to replace slacker administrators.
I am reading this from outside Starke County and the Knox school district. Doesn't anyone read or listen to the news about what other schools are giving in raises? If Knox teachers were given 3% last year and are offered 3% this year on top of the raises the district pays for another year of experience, I think the teachers better take the raise quick before the state's funding collapses for next year and beyond. Once that happens, if the Knox school board is smart, they will hold onto all the cash they can to get through the coming tough years. Many other schools will have to lay off teachers because they won't have the money to keep everyone. So, teachers, take the money and say thank you!
I would love to agree with the teachers, because I know that they have large classes and little to no help. But on the other hand, instead of getting big fat raises, why not take some of that money and put some of the good people out of work to work helping out in the class rooms. I am sure that hiring some teachers aides would be a big help to the teachers and better educate our youth. Also if there is so much extra money, lets improve the resources available to the kids and give them a better education. Aren't teachers state employees? If so, the rest of the state of Indiana workforce is not getting raises, so why should they?
If I have my information correct, I think it is illegal for the corporation to save money that has be budgeted for the general fund where teacher salaries comes from. If that money is not used for its intended purpose as per the submitted budget, then in subsequent years the money from the state will be reduced by that amount.
Also, when is the last time you heard of any other profession seeking a raise having a blog about them where anybody and everybody not involved can have an opinion?
Finally, to the person who told their child to applaud those teachers who did not wear black, how is that not MORE disrespectful than the teachers not wearing red and white?
I am a KFT member and I have not had an opportunity to vote up or down the administration's proposal. There was a comparison put out that the administration was offering us 3% for 2009 (bearing in mind that we received $2,500 in 2008 as supplemental pay) and we turned their offer down? The KFT agreed to the $2,500 in 2008, we took the money, and thought we made a great DEAL!
Dick, we want to vote on the proposal currently on the table. We want our raise now. Put it to a vote of the full membership NOW!
I am a parent that has had 4 students go through the Knox School system. All four of my children graduated from college and are now successfully employed. I feel that they received a quality education from Knox Community Schools. Many teachers made a positive impact on my children. I think that Knox Schools are the best. Why are they the best? Because of the people (teachers) teaching our young students.
The teachers did not get a raise on the salary schedule for 2008. They were given a lump sum after it was found out that the board gave the administrators a 3% raise. This balanced out an injustice. Teachers are the life blood of the school and are the people that students look up to, not administrators. If a fact finder would have found in favor of the administration, the teachers would have accepted the findings and gone on. The board agreed to go to fact finding and then decided, on their own, not to accept the findings of the fact finder. Why go through this process if you are ultimately turn it down anyway? As students would say that is BOGUS. How much extra money was spent for Dr. Beery to do the budget for next year and to help the board in discussions? Shouldn't this be the job of our superintendent? How much of a salary increase from past superintendents did Mr. Gappa get and much more in fringe benefits did he get although he had no experience as a superintendent? You can check the Dept. of education website to find this out. Pretty eye opening. I also recall seeing our basketball team in red, white, silver, and even BLACK uniforms. I thought black was a school color. I have seen sweat shirts for Knox in many other colors other than red and white. Does this hurt the athletes when you see Knox on a pink or bright orange t-shirt. I say give the teachers what they and the fact finder said they should have and lets go on from there. I would rather see the teachers have that money rather than to see it put in a new Taj Mahal administative building.
For those supporting the teacher's contract, good for you. For those who speak against the contract and even against the teachers in general, listen up. Teachers show up to work every day to teach the youth of our nation values and knowledge to prepare them for every day life. Members on this blog complain about the economy and that it is unfair for teachers to receive a raise. How do you expect the economy to improve or for our world to be a better place if our youth who will take over do not receive a valuable education? Added to that, is it truly fair to say just because some are suffering in this economy that all should suffer? The rainy day funds are there. Well guess what, it's pouring. If the teachers are forced to strike in order to receive a contract, do you really feel our children will receive the best possible education? No. Our teachers deal with disrespectful students day in and day out and try to make a difference to the few who care and deserve to receive ADEQUATE pay. They aren't asking for an outrageous sum, they are simply asking to be placed in the same pay range as others in their profession (as they are currently far behind). Anyone who has posted on here who is a parent...if I were to ask you if your child deserved the best you would say absolutely without missing a beat. To receive the best education, the teachers must feel they are valued. The school board needs to step up and show that they value and respect the teachers of the community and appreciate the work that is being done at the schools. A study was conducted by an independent organization that SHOWED that Knox Community Teachers were being paid less than the average teacher in the surrounding areas. Why don't you hear other teachers complaining? Because THEIR school boards have provided them with adequate pay and a contract. Our teachers would not be complaining or protesting if the same were offered to them. As a community, it is time to stand together and support the teachers, just as they would do for any other occupation in the city. And do it now.
So,the KFT members haven't even voted on the board's offer? I assume that the KFT officers are making the decisions and speaking for the group as a whole. Why haven't they taken a vote of the entire membership? Are they afraid the teachers will accept the 3% that the board has offered? Then they wouldn't have a fight.
After hearing the news on WKVI I am very surprised there is such a dispute from the teachers. As for 2008, it sounds like you were paid whether it was a one time lump sum or as an increment on your payroll. The checks were taken without any squabble (assumed cashed). The 3% raise together with your yearly increment seems like a really fair deal for 2009. Also, a 1.5% and a yearly increment for 2010 guaranteed seems like a no brainer especially since the governor may flat line for the next few years. I would think a job (instead of layoffs that could occur in the years ahead if monies are used up unnecessary at this time)would be more important. Has the head of the KFT taken this to all the teachers to vote on? He/She could be surprised at the outcome. Besides money does not a make a better teacher or able them to teacher better, that should come from the heart. I do not get a raise yearly (a yearly increment would be awesome, but that is not even heard of) but I do enjoy my job.
After hearing the news on WKVI I am very surprised there is such a dispute from the teachers. As for 2008, it sounds like you were paid whether it was a one time lump sum or as an increment on your payroll. The checks were taken without any squabble (assumed cashed). The 3% raise together with your yearly increment seems like a really fair deal for 2009. Also, a 1.5% and a yearly increment for 2010 guaranteed seems like a no brainer especially since the governor may flat line schools for the next few years. I would think a job (instead of layoffs that could occur in the years ahead if monies are used up unnecessary at this time)would be more important. Has the head of the KFT taken this to all the teachers to vote on? He/She could be surprised at the outcome. Besides money does not make a better teacher or able them to teacher better, that should come from the heart. I do not get a raise yearly (a yearly increment would be awesome, but that is not even heard of) but I do enjoy my job.
I think the teacher's union is AFRAID to let the teachers vote on whether or not to accept the offer of a 3% raise for this year and the 1% raise for next year. They already know that the majority of the teachers will probably vote to accept the offer.
This is what gives unions a black eye (like their black shirts on Fridays) when they have a fair offer and just want more and more and more. Then when they can't get all they want, they start the union pressure tactics and take it to the classrooms with a show of black. Oh brother!
Kudos to the teachers who are remaining professional and not wearing black show students how disrespectful they can be and hurt the teaching and learning in the classroom. Who believes for one minute this doesn't have a negative effect on what goes on in the black classrooms?
I say let the teachers vote! Teachers should demand that this happen or get new union leadership!
Teachers why are you disputing a good offer. Did the fact finding person have all the details that the governor has stated about the schools may be flat lined for the next few years. May be he had tunnel vision and only looked at what the small picture was and not the overall picture. I believe the head of the KFT should take the offer back to the teachers and let them vote. Be happy with what you could have, most of us have to be happy with what we have.
Not to change the subject, but does anyone know how to report a trustee in a township for not doing their job. I know the one for Center Township isn't doing hers properly and I can see now why the governor wants to do away with them. Phone calls should be returned. They are paid our tax dollars to provide a service and should do so. Not to interrupt all the teacher vs school board fighting going on, but if someone could pass along that information, it would be helpful. I know if I don't do my job, I'm not invited back the next day, why is it different for trustees?
As a teacher in the Knox schools, I would like to thank the community for letting the teachers know how important or rather unimportant we are to them. I have never felt so belittled and unappreciated in my life. For me it is not the lack of a raise that has been upsetting. Yes, money is nice, but it is more about being recognized for the hard work, sweat, and tears I pour into my job everyday. I became a teacher later in life because I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to make education fun and important for kids. I literally had to redefine my life in order to do this. I have suffered significant financial hardship in order to achieve this dream and continue to do so due to the requirements of the teaching profession. Yes I knew this would happen when I Became a teacher, but I thought this would be balanced by the emotional rewards. Now, reading some of the borderline hateful and spiteful comments from the community and watching the superintendent literally smirk and laugh at the teachers during meetings, I wonder if it was worth it. I love my job and had hoped I was making a difference. I have had many students return to tell me they learned a great deal in my class, which warms my heart. Now I am hearing their parents mock the teachers and ridicule them for daring to take a stand. I do wear black on Fridays. It has nothing to do with wanting to create a detrimental atmosphere in the classroom. When asked about the black, I merely state, “It is a flattering color.” After that, none of my students have remarked on it again.
What I see as detrimental are parents and those in the community pointing out to their children that the teachers should have a mass firing for being greedy. How dare I want the same recognition as my colleagues in neighboring schools. Of those that I graduated with, I make the least. I have the same years of experience and in some cases more education than them. How is it greedy to want the same respect? These are not teachers in wealthy school districts. They are all in small rural schools. Not only do they earn more, they are respected in their communities.
If Knox wants mass firings, then I fear they may get their wish; however, it may be mass transfers. No one wants to stay in a place where they are underpaid and under appreciated. It is true that there are not tons of openings, but many teachers are reaching retirement age. According to the latest statistics, there will soon be a teacher shortage. The good teachers of Knox that have many years left to teach will eagerly be waiting for those positions to open. The slackers will be more than happy to stay at Knox where, obviously, little is expected of them.
Several of the KCS Board members have said during the course of negotiations that teachers should just stop and take a look at where we live, as though Knox was not a place in which we should be proud to live. I am a life long resident of Knox and I find these statements to be very troubling. I have always been proud of our community. My husband and I have made our lives here. My husband has a business in Knox that has been very successful. I have seen students graduate from Knox High School and go on to do wonderful things with theirs lives, my daughter included. Some of these same students are returning to Knox to be productive members of our community. Would we say to these former students...don't come back here because just think of where you would be living?
Yes, I am one of those teachers who does wear black on Friday. My wearing black has no impact on the learning outcomes in my classroom. The state standards are still being taught, and I still have the same high expectations of achievement regardless of the color of my shirt. I find it ironic that most of our students don't even wear red on "spirit days" but yet as a teacher, I am disrespectful if I don't wear red. Somehow that just doesn't seem logical to me. I personally think that wearing jeans to work is unprofessional and that "bribing" us to wear red for a jeans day is insulting.
I have discovered through this community discussion board just how little many community members value the educators in our schools. We have been called "slackers" and greedy. Some would like us all fired. Some think we should leave and get a different job. Actually, I think an administrator has said that to some teachers. This definitely shows some leadership ability. All of these comments have been made because the teachers want a raise in pay that is affordable and sustainable by our school corporation.
Some people have posted their concerns that the school should save its money because our economy is in tough times. I would agree that it is prudent to be conservative with finances. However, if you were at the board meeting last night (OCT. 19th) you would have heard that the board approved raises for the classified staff (Yeah, well deserved) and our administrators. In addition to their raise, administrators now get all of their health insurance paid. I guess those administrators needed that insurance perk even in these tough times, but those greedy, slacker teachers...they don't need a raise. The three percent raise that administrators received plus that little health insurance perk would effectively give administrators anywhere from a 5-7% increase in pay and benefits ... in these tough times. I am happy that our corporation thinks so highly of our administrators and I don't begrudge them what they earn. I am just sad that the Board thinks so little of the KSC teaching staff and feels for the most part that we are overpaid for the work we do. Oh, board members will give a litle speech and tell us how proud they are of their teachers and that they will support us as much as they possibly can but that is just an attempt to make us feel good... all just lip service. Compliments are nice, however, you have to follow through with $$$.
Some people have written that they understand and acknowledge the amount of time and work that teachers must spend both in the classroom and at home in order to educate our greatest resource, our children. To you I say thank you. I would encourage community members to attend a school board meeting. Ask for a teacher's and administrator's contract so that you can see what the salaries are for our school corporation. Ask for a copy of the fact finder's report so that you can read what the findings were. Apply to be a substitute teacher. What better way to see first hand what a day is like in the schools. Volunteer to help in some capacity at the schools. Find out from the state DOE where our teachers and administrators rank in salary within the state of Indiana.
I SAY FIRE ALL THE SCHOOL BOARD MEMEBERS AND MAYBE THINGS WOULD CHANGE, I THINK ALL CUSTODIANS AND BUS DRIVERS AND KITCHEN PEOPLE NEED A RAISE MORE THAN TEACHERS WE CANT EVEN GET IN THE UNION WITH THE TEACHERS MR. WAGNERS IS AGAINST IT. AND THE POOR BUS DRIVERS CANT EVEN COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE SUMMER. I BET ALOT OF U PEOPLE DIDNT NO THAT AND THEY DONT EVEN GET INSURANCE.THERE IS NO FAIRNESS IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THE ADMINSTRATION IS ONLY LOOKING OUT FOR THERE BENEFIT. AND THERE PAY RAISES THEY SURE GET ALOT OF MONEY TO BUY NEW VECHICELES.BUT US POOR PEOPLE CAN BARELY LIVE PAYCHECK TO PAY CHECK US UNDER STAFFED EMPLOYEES.
I THINK KNOX SCHOOLS SPEND TO MUCH MONEY ON SPORTS AND NOT ENOUGH TIME ON EDUCATION. GIVE TEACHERS A RAISE. AND EVERYONE ELSE. YOU GREEDY SCHOOLS BOARD MEMBERS. I HEAR U GUYS THINK PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM ARE LAZY NOT ALL OF US ARE LAZY.
I hope the Knox teachers are spending as much time teaching and preparing as they are with the effort they have put in with the press and wearing black shirts and wearing buttons ? They have sported the buttons for 2 years? I like the sign that Mr slaughter is holding in the pic! NO RAISES ..face the facts
To the KFT, I would say yes, Thank You, I would like my raise!
Let the teachers vote. A simple solution would be to place a ballot box at each school and during the course of one or more days let the FULL union contingent of the teachers vote on the administration's proposal. You have a list of all teachers in the union, you need only accept ballots from those teachers.
Then, when you count, have a neutral third party observer verify the results. Then, let the results show whatever they will show and act accordingly from there.
Actions speak louder than words, right? A full vote one way or another would be the truest object lesson we could show our students. That we are willing to exhaust every avenue to reach an agreement first, before proceeding with any more actions is something we should be teaching our students, not that a few can speak for the many when the many want to speak for themselves.
I feel sorry for you teachers. It seems that all of you do not have all the true facts coming from the meetings that have been attended by others. After reading most of these blogs, I could not help, but to blog this myself. Why have all of you not been able to vote on the proposed offer. It sounds good. Also, I would bet that the surrounding area teachers are not at a higher pay scale but we do not here them in the news. No one should not appreciate a teacher. I would like to think all of you are a fine teacher. So put this to rest and let every teacher vote.
I can see from the picture on WKVI's website that only a couple dozen teachers showed up for the union show of force. To the one who said the teachers should strike, I would remind them that if teachers strike, the school board can fire them because it is illegal for teachers to strike. However, if the union radicals would strike and be fired, the board could hire new teachers to replace them and then maybe the remaining teachers could get new union leadership!
What they don't realize is that the community understands that if the board gives away a lot of its money to teachers now and the state decreases the money to schools for the next couple of years, then the board will have to cut teachers just like the other schools around us are doing because they did not save for a rainy day. Yes, it is pouring now, and if the money that the school has in the bank is supposed to last until it gets better, the board has to budget to get through it just like any responsible business. I don't want to see teachers lose their jobs. Do you?
I am glad to see that the board did not let this group hold up the raises for everyone else!
If I were a parent in the school corporation, I would be contacting board members and administrators to thank them for being more than "fair" and still keeping the school on solid ground financially. I am sure they are hearing many more positive comments in support of them than the negative comments this union's leadership wants to happen. I would also thank my student's teachers who are not part of this negative group who wear black,wear buttons, hold signs, and insult the board and administration. We need to appreciate them for not being pressured by the negative ones in the schools!
It is important to remember that the majority of teachers do not support these crazy antics. I believe that most teachers do care about the kids and work hard to teach them. They do deserve the 3%raise that everyone else got last night, in addition to their experience raise and their retirement payments and their insurance payments and the rest of their great benefit package. But they need to get new leadership so they aren't all seen as a negative, greedy, complaining group.
To the teacher or teachers who commented about feeling belittled and unappreciated by the public: When you look at forums such as this one, you need to realize that a lot of really negative people get on these to filter their negativity into other people's lives. It is a way of making themselves either feel better or bring you down to where they are. I agree that you all should get raises but I also think that some of that money should be used to support your efforts as well. For instance, hiring some teachers aides and other resources for each of the schools is a must. I have two children attending Knox schools and all I ever hear is how much the teachers have to do and how little time they have to do it because of having no assistance in their classrooms and their big classes. I am a graduate of the Knox school system and also went to college to be a teacher, although I choose another profession instead. My biggest concern with this whole situation is how it is affecting the children. We all know that the Governor has made statements about the funding for schools and such. Use this money while you still can and shame of the school board for not looking at the bigger picture here. The KIDS are the most important thing, and their futures are in the hands of these greedy and SMUG (look at the picture on the website) individuals. I bet they all got raises in their pay. They should try to live like the rest of the us, worrying about having a job tomorrow, or taking a big pay cut with insurance premiums increasing. I really think that the school board really needs to take a look at how things are working instead of being so smug and smiley all the time.
As I sit here and read all of these comments, I wonder if all of the poeple who left negative comments about the teachers spend as much time teaching their own kids when they are at home, and if home schooling is the way you teach your children, why should you even have a comment about the teachers, school or raises, it will not affect you either way will it ? I think there are alot of very good teachers that put their heart and soul into their classes and those they teach, there are also teachers who show up and collect a pay check, many teachers do not attend games even though they are given a sports pass every year. As far as wearing black, it is a color, and offending athletes on Fridays, what about the other 4 days of the school week, there is rarely a night that some sort of sporting event is not going on at Knox. The school corp. is in bad shape, when they have more assistant coaches than we have aides in the Elem. school. Is it better to win a game or teach the kids, you tell me, and if your answer is to win a game,think about this, without teachers those athletes would not even know how to read a play book. Starke Co. is a poor county, that does not mean that we have to have poorly educated children. sb
I'm curious why the teachers have not voted on the proposal from the school board. Maybe they need to see if the head of the KFT stands to benefit more from what he is wanting and is afraid that the teachers would settle for a deal that really sounds too good to pass up. Has anyone checked to see what kind of a raise the surrounding schools received. Just because Knox schools have a rainy day fund does not mean to dip into it (everyone should have some type of savings if possible). I think the teachers should VOTE.
Ok -- I have read all of these posts, and felt compelled to comment. First of all, I applaud the dedicated and caring teachers. You have a very thankless (for the most part) job. Hoxever as I look around the community, there are many, many thankless jobs which do not pay as well. Waitresses, bus drivers, cooks,salespeople, even the secretaries, aides and custodians in your school would love the opportunity for a 2% raise on top of a cost of living (or experience) raise that you have been offered. Many would be happy to have a job, many have college educations too.
As far as the Board and Mr. Gappa, we elected those people with the smug pictures, and we have to live with the consequences until the next election. It would seem that everybody has a comment about Mr. Welter and his allegiances, but yet he is re-elected EVERY time. I am not sure that this contract is Mr. Gappa's fault. Didn't this start while he was still principal/asst. prinicipal? His contract was offered by the Board. How many people would say "No thanks, I'll take less than what you are offering. I need to really get a few years under my belt first". I don't think so. He took what he was given. There is no shame in that.
As far as the Superintentant's building, this discussion has been going on since Dr. Bourff was here. Why would it be a bad thing to take those offices out of the elementary school? It would free up classroom space which is dearly needed. It doiesn't have to be the Taj Majal, but adequate.
As far as wearing red and white on Fridays, this must be a joke. It is just an excuse for casual Friday. We have little school spirit these days. The homecoming pep session was a disgrace. Once upon a time, the CHEERLEADERS were in charge of the pep session and getting the crowd into a frenzy. (Not that I begrudge Mr. Cronk -- he has an incredible amount of school spirit -- but that's not what this is about) The only lockers that get decorated at school are football and cheerleading in the fall, basketball and cheerleading in the winter. There are many other dedicated student athletes out there, but you would never know it by our cheerleaders. The cheer coach should remember how it used to be. She was part of those pep sessions and activities. I guess cheering for everyone is not part of the program anymore. Heaven forbid they cheer loud enough for us to hear them. Or lead a crowd participation cheer.
Red and white on Friday is not for the athletes, nor should it be. It should be about being proud to be a Knox Redskin. Ironically, there are many opportunities for students to get out of class 5 minutes early if they have red on or something with Knox Redskins on it, yet they still don't do it.
BE GLAD YOU HAVE A JOB!!!! WHINING WILL GET YOU NOWHERE!!! GROW UP & QUIT WEARING BLACK ON FRIDAYS....YOU ARE NOT GOING TO A FUNERAL...YOU ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE TO OUR CHILDREN......SO WHEN THEY GROW UP AND GET A JOB AND DON'T GET THEIR RAISE THEY WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER WHAT THEIR KNOX TEACHERS DID ON FRIDAYS WEAR BLACK.....GROW UP...BE A GOOD EXAMPLE NOT A BAD ONE!!!! we are in an economic meltdown right now.....help our economy!! GROW UP!!
Oh, my gosh! Those teachers and their crazy antics! You know, it must take me at least two hours on a Friday morning to decide which black shirt I should wear so that I can be disrespectful to my students and the athletes. My time could be so much better spent if I spent those two additional hours in my classroom preparing to teach the children of our community but then that would put me at school at around 5 AM. Since I'm spending so much time putting on a button, I probably should spend an equivalent amount of time, say an additional hour or so longer than I normally would stay after school, just to make sure that that I'm well prepared but that would make me getting home at around 5:30 PM. But I really don't need much of a personal life because I need to spend several hours grading student work in the evening. I would hope that putting in a 13-14 hour day would be a sufficient amount of time to satisfy the community. I certainly don't want to be a "slacker". And...posing for that picture on personal time..well, I guess that is also a no-no. Oh, that's right, I forgot, teachers are supposed to be wonderful examples just like I know most of the parents are to their children.
Today I wore all navy to school... a rather dark color of navy... I wonder what psychological effect that had on my students? I probably should be reading studies to find out the effects of the colors that teachers wear on student learning. It seems the community thinks that red is the optimal color for student learning and achievement. I propose a dress code for all...red shirts every day...and watch those tests scores soar. I wish someone would have told me many years ago that wearing black on any given day was such a distractor for student achievement. Imagine the damage that could have been prevented.
If you can read this post and understand the irony then thank a teacher.
WKVI-- You left out some important information in your news article "Some Employees Get Raise in Knox Community Schools".
You forget the part about the administrators getting all of their health insurance premiums paid. This benefit was also extended to our Athletic Director and our new Curriculum Director. I just thought you might have overlooked that part of the story...or maybe you didn't get the whole story from Superintendents office.
Wow, kinda of tired of reading all the teachers comments here. Whether your a good teacher or a slacker,(I have 3 kids in the school system so I know who they are),a 3% raise would be a dream! I'm also a professional, a RN-BSN. I didn't receive a raise, nor do I get out of work on time. I spend many hours of my own time studying for many certifications that I must keep up every yr. to keep my job. Don't forget to count all the on call hours I give to the hospital every pay period for $2 an hour to make sure that you are taken care of when you come to the hospital. Yes, there are good nurses and bad, but we get sued or have or license revoked if we make a mistake. We also have to pay for our own insurance. Would we have taken a 3% raise- you bet!! Besides nurses, there are many of us in this community who would of grabbed anything & we work hard for the money too. Instead we are just feeling lucky to still have our jobs. Maybe the next time you come to the hospital on a Friday, you can see all of us wearing black and see how that affects you!
The "if you can read this thank a teacher" post was HILARIOUS! Thank you! I needed that after a long night at work.
I want to say...I believe in teachers and what they do. I think that everyone has a teacher who changed their course in life at one point or another. Be proud of that. Be humbled by that.
However, for you to imply that you work harder at your job than I do at mine, well just plain ticks me off. I work equally hard and my job affects members of this community and yet do I feel this sense of entitlement to get a raise every year? No. In fact, in this economy, my wages have been cut, which brings me to Pulaski County. Who are these people getting fired and why are they hated by their co-workers so much that they aren't willing to "take one for the team" to keep everyones job? I can think of a only a hand full of people that wouldn't be worth it to me, but for the most part, I would take the cut in pay. Are you greedy? Is this where all the greedy people go? Heads up, Knox Teachers!
You do an important job, no doubt. And years after graduating high school, I am still in touch with teachers that affected my life, not because of what they were paid, but because they are interested in where my life has taken me. Why can't you enjoy that? Why all the negativity? Is that really what's needed right now? You know, when I was in high school, the entire senior class got up and walked out of school in protest to a new school rule that had just been passed. Know what we got? Suspended. Whether you know it or not, you're not teaching kids to stand up for themselves, you're teaching them that if they whine long enough they will get what they want. I'm actually proud that the school board isn't caving to your demands. It means we elected the right people for the job. If my kid comes home wearing black one day and said it's because all his friends are protesting something, I would tell them just what I'm going to tell you...grow up, and be your own person.
So, go on and where your black and your buttons. You are in unity alright...but maybe take a step back and ask if it's something you want to be a part of. Treat teachers fair...ABSOLUTELY....asking for a raise, when first, you're already getting one, and second, the economy is in the toilet, is selfish.
You claim to care about this community, and that's why you do the job you do and should be compensated for it? There's a right time and a wrong time to ask for a raise...check your watch.
And also to the person who said that she told her students it was a fashion statement and nothing else was thought about it. Then you're NOT doing your job, because a normal kid is questioning, endlessly sometimes, and needs to know, so they are coming home and asking questions, or reading this discussion online.
What's sad is that I have never questioned the quality of teaching at Knox...until now. Unfortunately, I also believe that social interaction is important at this age and I am not about to pull my kids out of school. However, if the teachers do strike, I truly hope that, if it is actually a law, they are fired. There are plenty of young students who are coming out of college who would love an opportunity to teach. Especially with a built in raise every year. That's something that I wish I could go back and ask my counselor why she didn't tell me.
OH, and to the character who said to fire the school board members....they are ELECTED. If you want to "fire" them...VOTE.
Can we please talk about something else here? We have a jail that is overcrowded, Winamac people losing their jobs, hell, the sandhill cranes are in town. Doesn't anyone care about the important issues rather than the teachers getting more money? Hey, if you already got a raise from the state? Can you drive up to see the cranes? I can't afford the gas money.
First we need to evaluate each inmates charges on why they're incarcerated. There are many that can't pay probation/court costs, child support or fines & thus locked up. For 1. JOBS ARE SCARCE. Make these people bring in 3 copies of of applications per week(which can be called upon), & also seek their GED or further schooling if necessary, & also perform community service until working. This would alleviate at least 20% of inmates, and push them to better their lives & become an integral part of society. 2. Get the long termers shipped out ASAP. 4. Use our Reserve Co. Officers on a part time basis. 5. Think of some type of reward basis for inmates for good behavior, i.e. a decent dessert @ on the weekend, order a book via the library, or even a movie night for excellent behavior. These are people, not cattle, & though flawed primarily by the environment growing up, it's beneificial for reformatory purposes to show hope where possible to attempt to make them something positive for the future. I believe though that the jail likes these large numbers in order to receive more state $(& food $) per inmate. And what has this "great" community ever done for these kids? The "Mayors Tea Parlor", which could've built a nice Boys/Girls Club. Any mentoring programs? What about us not leaving our children behind? It takes a caring community to raise kids, but I guess if we just ban cruising & loitering, we might not have to look at them... From a life-long Knox res.
Before we get in a tissy over $, why are we not looking at all the ways to improve our children's education? For 1. OUR SCHOOL BOARD & TEACHERS ARE TOTALLY FAILING OF KIDS & PARENTS BY NOT HAVING A DUAL COURS CREDIT SYSTEM, WHICH NEARLY ALL OUR NEIGHBORING SCHOOLS HAVE(among other issues). Our gifted kids could be graduating high school & entering college as a sophmore if "our leaders" would get off their duff & integrate this into the AP classes, thus saving parents at least $20,000, & greatly decreasing college dropout rates. Oh...but wait...I guess it's not about the kids...back to the same old dollar. Great integrity & priorities shown again by our great leaders. From a Knox parent!
I think it's quite hilarious that the ones coming on here saying teachers should stop "whining" are the ones who actually argue a whining comment. "You teachers should be happy you have jobs, I have a job and I don't get raises" Right there, that obviously sits funny with you as well.. you're fully aware you aren't getting raises. Instead of complain that other people shouldn't either.. why don't you stand up and ask your boss for one? Little do people realize, a lot of times you don't get one until you fight for one. If you're a credible employee who is an asset to your company, sometimes it takes addressing that and reiterating that to your boss to get that shown on your next paycheck.
Whoever argued that other people don't get raises: bus drivers, secretaries, etc.. Well let's see, they didn't go to school an additional 4-6 yrs, add $60k in debt. They shouldn't be paid on the same wage chart as a teacher. You want a job as a secretary, you should be fully aware that accepting that position, you will probably top out in the town earning around $12/hr. That's because you're a secretary. There's nothing wrong with being a secretary, I've been there done that.. but that's the wage you can expect being a secretary. If you are unhappy with that rate of pay, either pick up an additional job or move on to a different profession... simple as that. You probably didn't devote those extra years of schooling that a teacher has to just "walk away" from a career. You can't sit here and base raises on jobs that are COMPLETELY different such as that. It's ridiculous and not even comparable. Bus drivers, sure that's a pretty difficult job. However, there are some that have been there for years and they are there that long simply because they love the job. You know when you accept that job.. it's a morning and mid afternoon position. That's it. Again, you don't like the stress of all the kids jumping around.. change your job!
I applaud the teachers for taking a stand against this joke of a school board. All YES people.. none of them ever want to make waves amongst one another. they are voted in, you're right. They are voted in repeatedly because half of them are related to a large number of residents in the area and have pretty recognizable names. That's small town politics for you. The problem with this community, with every issue.. is that people just simply don't care to ever make a stand. People can come on this blog and type up a storm, but would you ever have this crowd attend the meetings? Not a chance.. it's really a shame.. but it's the way it goes in town. It always has.
To the teachers: keep fighting. Don't cave in to these people. That's exactly what they are expecting of you. In their eyes, they control you and you have little to no voice. Get your union members standing outside AJ Gappa's office doors.
As a former student and a professional still involved with the Knox community, I am appalled at the lack of support for our teachers. If you are willing to settle for mediocracy in our teachers, then by all means don't support the raise. I believe we should provide adequate wages to retain teachers who can deliever and exceed the mandated levels of education our childern desevere. Teacher compensation, simply put, shows we value the teachers performance, therfore our children's education, and ultimatly our children's future. The school already has adequate funds to provide the raise - there would be no increased cost to the individuals of the community. So stop worrying about the $ and think about the message you are sending about your kids education and future.
So the gist of what you are saying, 11:23, is that people who don't spend $60k to get an education don't DESERVE a livable wage. Not everyone can afford to go to college. Twenty years ago there was no 21st Century Scholars program and grants and scholarships were hard to come by. There is no shame in that, it was a different era. I did not say that all those other people should be paid equally with the teachers, I said that they are ALSO in thankless jobs and would welcome the increase that has been proposed.
As far as the teachers go, yes, they are valuable members of the community and they should be paid much more than they are making. Who shouldn't? I agree, get as much as you can from the school board, but don't come out and say that the teachers are better than everybody else and therefore should get paid more. In your line of thinking, they don't deserve a raise. They knew what they were getting into when they declared their major. Teachers are historically undervalued and underpaid. This should not come as a surprise.
I think the teachers are out of their minds right now. I have always been a supporter of local public schools, but I think the selfishness they are showing at this critical time in our history, and with the local economy, as well as national economy being in the shape it is in, is deplorable. And, to wear BLACK on Fridays in PROTEST? Are they kidding me? They should all be ashamed of themselves to even consider doing such a thing. Doing it at School Board Meetings, or in some other forum is one thing, but to bring it right into the classroom is quite something else. What kind of message does it say to the students, people? What is says is that you're taking it out on them, and it is shameful. Get in another line of profession, but don't tell the students it's THEIR fault. I can see why people are turning to Home Schooling.
This doesn't have anything to do with teachers, but it's just about as tired a subject, and I wonder why WKVI insists on droning on and on every day about the SWINE FLU! I can't turn my radio on in the morning without hearing that nasal sounding "h1n1' coming out of it, yet once again. Why don't you tell it like it is? The symptoms of the Swine Flu are mild, (although the media wants you to believe otherwise) while the symptoms of the seasonal flu are FAR more harsh...less than 1,000 people have died from the Swine Flu...I mean h1n1, while 40,000 to 50,000 people die from the seasonal flu each year. Geeze, stop with the media frenzy, will ya? The sky is NOT falling!
I guess what I don't feel is right is that WKVI is only allowing the comments of AJ Gappa to be aired over the radio- instead of getting a teacher or representative of the teachers take to be aired as well. Isn't that slightly biased WKVI? I believe there are some "personal contacts" between the station and the school, but come on.. that's not right at all. If you're going to play the superintendent giving his take, then you need to have the opposing side giving their take. That's like only letting a jury hear one side of the story- remember, not everyone has access to your blog! let's be fair now ok?
Editor's note:
WKVI conducted, and presented an interview with
Dick Wagner the president of the teacher's association
on October 12th.
He is welcome back at any time with further comments as the negotiations continue.
We also had a story last week with the KTF response to the school and posted a pdf file with the complete press release.
Thank you for visiting our website, and your comments. Our news department is very diligent about covering both sides of this story as it unfolds.
I think a lot of people are missing the point of teachers fighting for a fair contract. The issue here is that the school has money to bring a fair and comparable contract to our community. This would ensure that quality teachers are willing to stay and apply at our schools in the future. Also, we need to question why are our kids being crammed into classes without additional support? Why are we not hiring certified teachers to allow smaller class sizes, more one-on-one instruction, and supplies that our kids need? This is about the kids and I think these are reasonable questions to ask the board. People are afraid of the economy, but we can not let our children suffer and go without a valuable education and resources to better themselves. The school will still have PLENTY of money left and still be able to hire additional support staff and more teachers if you do the math. Just think of the interest they are banking off of the 3.3 million and this does not include what is in the rainy day fund.
Why is our school not stepping up to the plate?
would like to have the obits updated on a daily basis. Some services are over before they appear in the wkvi obits.
How rare it is to have a murder in Starke Co., but if found guilty, why do we have to waste tax $ of our's & our children's, 40 yrs. down the road? Have him make his peace with Our Father in Heaven, and go back to the old style lynching on the courthouse lawn, and then see how many murders take place. And for all the convicts in jail, PUT THEM TO WORK DAILY DOING COMMUNITY SERVICE, mowing elderly's lawns, shoveling snow, fixing up the community(painting, etc. or even a chain gang), and you can be certain that when they get out, they'll have a work ethic established. But noooooo....let's just keep locking them up so they can lay around & watch TV & accomplish NOTHING!
I am writing as a parent of a high school student who asked my a question yesterday. He asked me if I thought the teachers would still be wearing black on this Friday, spirit day when they should be so proud of both the football and vollyball teams success this past weekend? He also told me that maybe it won't matter because the rumor around school is that the teacher are going to call in sick on Friday. Then he said, isn't that the same as senior skip day that everyone get so upset about.My question for the teachers is how do I answer these question? I know how they would answer them , that is has nothing to do with the students but they can't really believe that in there hearts if they truly believe that kids come first. I just hope they look at what kind of example they are setting for the students and what they are teaching them about acceptable behavior and possible avenues of solutions when you have a disagreement with authority or don't get your way in certain issues even if a fair proposal is being offered. The teachers in our school system do a great job and I want to say thank you to the teachers that aren't involved in these actions that just can't be good for our students to witness, I not saying they shouldn't get a raise but I understand it just that they aren't getting exactly what they want. I think the school board is being fair in offering them 3 % for 2009, considering that they got a 3% lump sum for 2008 already.
I just wanted to point out that there were at least 21 errors in grammar, punctuation, and/or spelling in that last post. And that was just one paragraph...that really should have been broken up into two or three. But that's just what I counted in my second reading of it. There might be more errors that I didn't catch.
I sure hope the teachers of today are getting paid better than the ones who taught that person how to write.
I find it interesting that the person didn't disagree with the info in the above blog, just in the way it was written. Did he not read any of the other blogs? That makes me think that the information must have struck a nerve somewhere or as they say hit to close to home?
Technically, that last sentence should have been typed, "too close to home." Someone forgot an extra "o" in there.
I'm curious if the teachers took a vote on the proposal from the school board. This site has been on the quiet side.
Hey, WKVI! I heard that the union reps finally allowed the teachers to vote on the offer from the school board. Where's the story on this? How did the teachers vote?
The teachers voted by an overwhelming margin to reject the school boards offer.
If the teachers rejected the 3% offer (which according to what was told on the radio and half of these blogs) then I think the school board should offer less and see if they like that. Most people are not getting raises and hoping to keep their insurance at least low enough they can offered it. I guess I am confused at what the teachers are actually holding out for. They got money for 2008 (although they spent it in 2007) and they are being offered 3% for 2009 and 1% for 2010. If the teachers are worried about the rainy day fund, they should get over it because every school should have one. If the governor flat lines the schools at least our school would have something to fall back on. Why is it that the surrounding schools never have this type of dispute with their board. Our teachers must be more greedy.
Jealousy!!! Will all the jealous people that did not get a raise shut up. I live in Starke county and I received a very decent raise this year. If you do a good job and your employer has the money for raises then you should recieve something that is fair.
The fact finder said 2% for 2008 and 2% for 2009. He has all of the information and that was his recommended.
I am so sick of hearing people complain against a raise. Get a life.
By the way, 81 out of 102 teachers voted down the boards offer.
I think the teachers deserve a raise. They put up with a lot from some kids that are very disrespectful. But, what I have read and heard, it sounds like 3% and a 1% is a good deal since they were already paid a lump some for 2008. The Knox teachers should move on and out of 2008.
If and why teachers voted the offer down should be more explained. Is it the 2% for 2008 that is holding everything up. If it is, I thought they got a lump some for that year but they chose to use it at the end of 2007. These checks should not have been cashed if they wanted a 2% raise instead. It seems that they should take the proposal for 2009 (3%) and 2010 (1%) this is the same as 2% and 2%. Maybe they should rethink their decision.
First off, it was not a raise in 2008. That money was held out of the settlement forced on the corporation by the State to buyout the retirement fund and insurance fund. The money was held back because the corporation was afraid they would have to pay for the Special Ed teachers that really work for Jessi, not Knox.
When they found out that they didn't have to pay for them, the money was divide amongst the teachers retirement funds.
So there was no real raise in 2008.
The corporation have over 2 million in the bank that is suppose to be for teacher salaries. Oh! They make 50,000 month off of that 2 million. So, yes they can afford 2% for 2008 and 2% for 2009.
You want to know something really interesting?
Gappa makes more than the Governor of the State of Indiana.
That is real funny for a community that is complaining about teachers wanting a 2% raise that would be about 1000 a year for the highest paid teacher and a lot less for the ones with less experience.
I think the Board should be happy to have teacher that make AYP and make the school system look good. But, of course they don't care as long as they (the Board ) get their free family insurance.
Give them the raise and get it over with.
I would like to know which teachers actually benefit the most for holding out for the 2% in 2008. The proposal for the 3% (2009) and 1% (2010) sounds like a good offer. According to Tony Bennett, the schools should hold on to their rainy day fund because the schools are soon going to do without. If this is to happen, then I would think that no raise would be in the offering. Just some food for thought.
"According to Tony Bennett, the schools should hold on to their rainy day fund because the schools are soon going to do without. If this is to happen"
You just don't understand. They would rather spend over a million dollars building Gappa a brand new Administration building so he can look important.
Why don't you people stop and ask why are we still paying that temporary superintendent Dr Berry? Can't Gappa doe his 90,000 dollar job by himself?
Why does he want a new office?
The raise for 2008 to teachers is only 60,000 dollars that is alot less than a new building costing over a million.
Don't you remember how us taxpayers got screwed by that Administation once when they wanted to build a new middle school and there had to be a vote.
We voted No to a new school, so what did they do? They tore down all but one wall and called it a renovation. That was a couple of million dollars.
I say pay the 60,000 out in the 2008 raises and get back to educating students. No new building, just pay our teachers little closer to those that work in other areas of the state.
You will still have over 3 million in savings and still be earning 50,000 a month off of that.
So you lose one month of interest by paying the 2008 raises, so what?
The rumor about a building being built for the Superintendent has been out there since Dr. Borroff was here. One hasn't been built to this day and with the schools not getting any funding, I would think it is safe to say, one will not be built in the near future. I think the school board is doing a good job by wanting to keep the rainy day fund to protect our teachers. The money that was received in 2007 was not part of the Jesse buy out (that was a different check) it was a lump sum given to the teachers to use at their discretion, whether it be retirement or cashed checks. I have to admit that I was surprised the teachers voted against the 3% raise for 2009 and 1% for 2010. The statements that are being made from Tony Bennett or the Governor about the monies for the schools, this proposal looks better good. Within the next few years the schools may be just fortunate enough to hold their own and not be able to give a raise not to mention any perks such as insurance. Also, speaking of insurance, the school board members do not get free insurance. The school board members should be patted on the back for putting up with the Knox teachers. Most schools do not have the drama that seems to happen with these teachers. I hope the best for both parties.
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